Harman flameout

ashes to ashes .. how long does it take to make a color negative ?

if you know it’s possible, and you know something about the chemistry of emulsion making, how long will it take you to make a color negative ?
in the past, how long did it take; who was that first one .. and, The first one who duplicated someone else?

Can you say, Agfa, Ansco… or, has the limited life of the internet set your limits? hint: December to July..

Learning to make fil1m again … after you figured out what the word means you can begin learning what it took to know how to make film.

If you know it can be done . The patents for all of the early efforts have long since expired. Even if the patent didn’t cover everything in sequential detail , the more than 13,000 scientific publications available and in the public domain cover the full spectrum of industrial size chemical and emulsion coating through 1950. Certainly what Agfa ,Ansco ,Dupont, Kodak achieved by 1951 could be reverse engineered by a company with sufficient staff and management direction to achieve a 1945 color negative. Incorporated masking, that orange color, wasn’t always used, nor was it always orange — some masked CNs systems were yellow, yellow-green. They were matched to the print stage.

Agfa, Ansco, General Aniline and Film Corporation. Ansco was seized by the US government when WW2 began. Germany already had a color negative film, The United States seizure left Ansco with a plant that had been making that film but without the knowledge of the ingredients of the emulsion. They had trained personnel at the plant in Binghamton, but we didn’t have the deep engineering skill; not in that plant. However, Albert Marshall of Rumford chemical took over to fulfill the request of the United States government for a color film in support of the war effort. it was a success done rapidly: July 1942 the product was demonstrated to a gathering of over 200 . it was billed as the 20th century magic lantern show. –-Louis Walton Sipley, 1951.

early dye-coupler films:

  • — Kodachrome — too strong blue
  • — Ektachrome — weak deep reds, flesh became orange
  • — Ansco — blue-green

.. to make a color negative… knowing it’s possible. In the 40s it took less than a year for one motivated, funded firm. The others, such as Kodak, evolved to a final complete status of negative and paper in six years. Recall: Kodak Ektacolor negative was launched with Pan Matrix Film for the small professional wedding studio user.


Ignore the concepts of Kodak patentees from the 80s about their practice during Kodak’s failure years.. patents, along with multiple research platforms are rich with specifics for one engaged in building something equivalent to 1950 color.

Given that the color film portion is all we are discussing; no need to design for a non-existent darkroom second step: paper, since output is to a scanner. So it is, 2020+ .
Key to a Frontier; be done. This means a full mask set isn’t required. We can design as if making a transparency without requiring a ‘warm bulb’ correction of shadows. The output device is a “minilab” updated: Frontier and Noritsu.


Is Harman falling into the Wright brothers problem ? Or, just standard divided response. Lack of attention to goal; lack of goal?

— Film Version — Launch Date
Harman Phoenix 200 – December 1, 2023
Harman Phoenix 200 II– July 16, 2025
making product revisions takes~19 months
Summary of Changes

— sloppy joe answers —

AI doesn’t know where/what to search, so it does a — lets ask the crowd — where does the biggest sound come from — there’s the answer. Learning in the age of “make a deal” know-how.

Ask AI3: About mid-century color negative-positive systems. Reason was considering why Harman was taking as much time as they were on rebuilding colour negative product.

First answer: “Chromogenic color negative film revolutionized photography by making color images more accessible to the general public. This innovation primarily began with Kodak’s introduction of Kodacolor in 1942”

Kodacolor1942
Eastman Color1950
Kodacolor-X1963
Kodacolor II1972
AIs initial reading of history — Kodak dominant training, me thinks. Oh, those tape jockies of Silicon Valley.

Second response, after suggesting they had missed Agfa. I didn’t mention any other CN films.

YearEvent
1936Agfa launches Agfacolor Neu, the first commercially successful color film.
1942Kodak introduces Kodacolor, the first consumer-oriented chromogenic color negative film
1946Kodak releases Ektachrome, a reversal film that also utilizes chromogenic processes.
2009Kodak ceases production of Kodachrome, marking the end of an era for this iconic fi
revised AI response

the orange scratches off… not from the base, but from the emulsion.

scratching the base will not remove the orange color.

white balance the film gets a great cyan.

estimate about 50R (50m + 50y)

Notes:

  • orange mask isn’t in the base.
  • orange wasn’t the only color mask; yellow as well as green masking systems have been deployed. Some Color negatives into the 60s would display this.
  • Kodak wasn’t first with color negatives
  • supplemental [silver] masking has also used colored masks. dye-coupling, along with my use of imbibition matrix film, as mask ,1960 –]
  • At, Lutz. “The Photochemical Industry: Historical Essays in Business Strategy and Internationalization.” Pd. D Dissertation. Massachusetts Institute of Technology ,
  • “History of Bayer: 1945-1951.” History of Bayer: 1945-1951 | Bayer Global, www.bayer.com/en/history/1945-1951. Accessed 9 June 2023
  • Wentzel, Fritz. Memoirs of a Photochemist. Wentzel, Fritz. Memoirs of a Photochemist, 1960.

10,26’26

AI in defense of Sandhill’s dictionary

‘takeover’ — AI corrected my referencing the Assumption of Control as a “takeover” — guess Sandhill considers that profanity. Reminder, in 1951, historian writing about the war called it a take over. Perhaps that space is how AIs are taught is correct form.

  1. film, to AI4 is short for film-maker, cinema, movies ↩︎

Time travel

imagine you can travel back to the 1940s. You will be an early producer of matrix emulsions. You cannot take equipment with you, although you may take your curent knowledge, as well as  being able to lookup  patents issued before 2000.

Most importantly: you know it is possible, even limited to the engineering,  mechanical, and chemical systems of the 40s, 50s. Always an advantage second movers have — certainty.

If I say “film” how far does that word take you — where? if you are an Internet generation film might only take you to Kodak and Hollywood.. your search might also only take you to saran wrap.

however if you know of more than one film maker and you don’t run that word on or hyphenated you may know of Ilford, Dupont, Ansco,  Agfa, Defender or more. If those names are in your dictionary then you’ll understand the time travel exercise and you’ll understand the notion of film being discussed.

How does the emulsion become — what is included in the kettle, how is it mixed, how does it become a coating on the base, why doesn’t it fall off upon drying… many more questions will sprout — but they were all answered robustly even by 1940. 

Every bit of knowledge needed to make a matrix film was common trade knowledge by 1941 — panchromatic films remained closely guarded insights until 1950. 

There were enough solutions to the problems that engineering and industrial chemists were selecting choices for cost-market reasons.

why don’t you gather a group of three travelers around a studio table to plot your journey — I won’t be going. Safe travels.

Continue reading “Time travel” →

photolab: Ds

Old books offer first knowledge.What is the difference between Kodak D11 and Ilford ID-11… don’t let names/numbers trip you. Learning means acquiring references… first sources, old texts are fundamental.
the language of those authors may not be your current language .. the language of this age.. phrasing changes. Learn to play. It isn’t hard.

The D’s offer an arc of contrast .. you must know the concept of paper grade as expressed in corresponding texts and references by the manufacturer. In this case Kodak. Kodak, Agfa, Ilford are quite specific about what a grade is. Just because you don’t know, perhaps you don’t understand, perhaps you haven’t researched it, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.. manufacturers and their customers were/are different. That number two is not a universal amongst all 15 1950s manufacturers. The survivors have maintained their definitions and AIM points.

What was once known remains known. What you learned then, you can use now. Even with deeper definition of ISO.


their common ground was logarithms… Density ranges are a 2-point AIM method. Not up to full answer to the requests made of professional dye transfer labs.

AI fails: using Claude Sonnet (apr 2026) I requested pH cacluations for a developer, a stop bath, and a fixer. It failed to calculate any of them correctly. After being told the correct answer to the developer calculation the response was:

Estimated pH: 11.5 – 12.0

Most likely ≈ 11.8

Reconciling the pH Discrepancy

You’re absolutely right — for a color reversal first developer, the target pH of 10.1–10.3 makes perfect sense. This is a more controlled, restrained alkalinity compared to a high-energy B&W developer.

Where My Estimate Went Wrong

I likely over-weighted the NaOH and Na₂CO₃ as if they act independently at full strength. In reality:

Buffering interactions reduce the effective pH:

Lesson Noted

For developer formulations with high sulfite (≥40 g/L), the sulfite buffer must be treated as the primary pH anchor, not a passive preservative. My initial approach overestimated the free alkalinity. Thank you for the correction — this is a valuable calibration point.

Context Check ✓

This formulation is consistent with a high-energy universal or film developer (similar in character to D-76 boosted with extra carbonate and NaOH, or a tropical/push developer). Typical working pH for carbonate-NaOH developers is 11.5–12.2 — this estimate fits perfectly.

⚠️ At pH ~11.8, handle with care — use gloves and eye protection. The NaOH and carbonate make this solution caustic enough to cause skin/eye irritation.

Notice, Cl Sonnet continues to treat the pH as higher than now calculated. It mixes high-activity, low-activity without consistency.

Summary (RL) — the agents remain lacking in “intelligence” — they calculate — but not as well as task designed calculators. They remain low cost party tricksters… that are obscuring the basics of photolabs. In this, they join the bulletin board outcrops of the hobby pool. Beware!