Category: the fora

all that stuff people say online

Dye Transfer – excuses

Posted on Posted in coursenotes, overnight notes, the fora, the Lab3 Comments

Learn by doing — but what if you’re too afraid, too uncertain, or now, just too late — all the stuff is gone. Everything is gone, except the high posters of the internet forums. They continue to chatter about a process that few of them engaged. It is used as a merit badge. Most of these posters are imposters; much like Post Exchange warriors — GIs who served by serving in the mess hall.

standardized: my dog ate it

I don’t mean to be unkind. I do mean to caution you about the internet guides who are lost, yet continue shouting follow me to paradise. The above quote is from a dye transfer group saved from the Yahoo/Egroup forum changes of the past winter. The quote (in blue) is a response from a poster found on Large Format & Photrio film-chemistry photography forums. He has more than 20,000 combined posts; using the forums as though a twitter+message system. [ his site is here: https://web.archive.org/web/20040603105530/http://drewwiley.com/contact.php ]

His response was to an established printer who is giving ‘Poser’ the benefit of the doubt, and has asked for details about Poser’s process specifics. The response is a standard: “my dog ate it.” My notes are in my other pocket.

The picture shows the car length distance to Poser’s ‘Lab.’ Although, by the miracle of no-one-cares he is never outed. Oddly, he is easy to locate — each of his postings has an eponymous website which is dutifully crawled by internet archive. Poser took his site offline a few weeks after making an appointment to show his work. Apparently he wanted to limit the prior knowledge of the person coming to see his work. [August 2020]

Two Places / Ways

Dye Transfer tried and died. Several times. It is not a viable commercial product. Nevertheless it continues to be held up as an elegant standard. A marker of qualitative superiority. As such, it is also said to be difficult to learn; so difficult that few have ever mastered it. Of course, that is uttered by those who stress a reprographic approach; those who made meager livings by selling tickets to a weekend workshop; most importantly, by those failures of courage.

The people who find reason after reason not to make a print; to just pick up a guide and follow it. These latter day delayers are the most common person on the forums, even the groups.io listserv. Poser will ask questions on a forum, repackage it for presentation on another, thereby, gaining ‘process’ credit. This alleviates, or it has for several years, his need to show. Poser prefers to tell, never show.

The danger to you is the same as getting a map from someone who has never travelled the area. Don’t expect that you will get further than they, before becoming lost like them.

Why hasn’t Poser learned dye transfer? For a decade he has bragged that he had. Over the past year, he has modified that stance. He was confronted, partially, on a forum, by someone who does make dyes. They didn’t call him out — she just asked him questions. Elementary ones. Ones like he can’t answer on the listserv…

He can’t learn because he is a show-off who has found it easier to splash around in the kiddie pools of the internet instead of learning to swim.

A sad thing: if this were 1980, in one week anyone who was going to learn dye transfer would have had the foundation down. Currently, the same immersive method is stretched into longer time.

First, find the guide. Don’t worry about the shoes; that comes later.

A year later [July 2021] — An update. We find the same Wiley poster using the same excuse. At least his has learned to spout the same acceptable coverup:

Ron, my notes are in the lab, but my hardening method for wash-off relief did involve ammonium dichromate.  I was trying to slow down the development step for sake of consistently developing large matrices in drums, trying to economize sink space.  And I got as far as concluding that wash-off relief is a realistic alternative to accomplish that. I still  haven’t found a big enough block of time to do serious image printing this manner.  I’m tied up with ongoing other kinds of intensive photographic projects.

Additional–

Why I’m Not Forumatti

Posted on Posted in Carp Fishing, film, Getting Stuff, the fora

A reason to gather.

Most do to regain something they never had. And, or, to exchange something. Sometimes that something is knowledge; usually, it is just remainders.

Reason is growth; an increased ability or awareness. Career insights. What shows are available, worthwhile seeing – in short, all the followups from an educated artist. At best, the place is adaptable, accommodating to a range of levels. 

who is on?

Mostly the photo fora are manned by the unknown offering advice and counsel to the not-knowing – the early learner being taught by the retired dropout.

The Actual

I have been on and answered questions – the response was mixed. What saved their portfolio effort they appreciated. What suggested an alternate way, they questioned; questioned to the point of rejection of me, doubting my credentials. Seemed strange that I could solve a problem that no one on two different forums could solve, but the alternate mode of working was devils work. Worse, the advice I offered on registration was given to someone just beginning their gum printing.

Would it matter that I’ve an MFA; learned printmaking from Richard Graf, Kathan Brown. Was Linda Connor’s first TA. Classmate of Mandel, Sultan … Taught art, including dye transfer — making collotype plates from the matrix film — making mats out of Tri-X and other films. If it did, how would anyone learn this stuff on a rolling stream of bits? Nope, they doubt because they know themselves, as well as knowing, accepting the obvious bullshit of their online colleagues. They share the lie of online fantasy life — complicit, like children stealing beer at a crowded stadium.

EX1

Any thoughts would be helpful,,, did I say it was driving me nuts??

Raised by the only professional printer frequenting the fora — he asked in two forums. Answers, but no solution. Answers by well known very vocal participants. So, since I was registered I provided the answer:

looks like ‘fisheye’ — in coating the over layer is rejected by the lower coat. cause is contamination. the deposits probably (if you could see them closely) would have a depression in the center down to the lower layer.. the ring is the coating that was supposed to flow over that open area.. yep. they can be brushed in to even out…

Within 6 months, Mr. Desperate was providing one and all the answer to their problems of mixing correctly. No reference given. He learned all of the methods of his portfolio from a group of avid amateurs, turning their answers into his business solution.

EX2

and the lone master who thought my named list was marker of territory ..a claim to ‘his’ value. I’m struggling to remember him. snow on steps. friend of Bret, writer of memoir about all the names he knew.

He missed my directed point that knowing other artists was one of the main values of being an artist. That even corresponding with them was a valuable means of development. Make yourself known, and accessible. Let those who are showing, those who are publishing, know of your work. What you are doing and where you are doing it. One of my mailings was to more than a thousand people. Postcards and postage were costing too much.

On this site is that list — not important for this post. It was part of my christmas list — I sent it in july. Same day for a dozen years. I collected names, addresses and phone numbers of photographers, critics, gallerists for years. I gave those listings to anyone who shared their details. Later, it served as the first mailing list for a beginning New York arts group.

I left. The Forum owner was kind enough to delete my posts and drop my ID from his site.

The short of my suggestion then and even more for now: Don’t just follow. Interact. To become interesting, know interesting people.

Oxymoronics —