.. my disappointment with AI .. it drinks my water and eats my volts.. The world vantage: on the shelf , on the net. Keep a shelf full of references. Maintain alliances with research libraries. Reminder: the hallmark of the 21st century billionaire class — move faster than the consumer.. faster than the law. Yippee Caigh Yeah … and all that ..[ If they want to tax me, I move to Texas; if they want to arrest me, I move to Argentina }
in partial post fullfilment
The notebooks cover two years of darkroom processing. The thin one at the top is dye transfer (imbibition print ). The other two are labnotes for the other processing, printing done. This stack wasn’t the busiest of my life — not even close. These days [2026 ] my darkroom time is so low it doesn’t seem worthwhile to keep notebooks — just rely on the wall chart standards. I haven’t bought film or paper in for years.
Ask not the GrepBot — find references in 3 steps: ask generally; refine using a 2nd engine; pick 2 or more links to read. Ex: has fuji discontinued? Is Kodak still …
can’t find it at your local shipping included store? in a major market, USA? perhaps the market is no longer big enough.
If the big market shrinks, the iceberg is melting. Only ice cubes shall remain.
It will be gone… once more, why ask the unkowing? ask the maker, users…
those aren’t the ” How long can I store this..” people. Nor, the: ” the bottle I bought over 20 years ago still looks fine…”
In this past weeks exorcise with AI3, they each and every one shanked the “color negative” questioning. Agfacolor Neu and Ansco Color…
find an old dictionary specific to the field of interest. Use that instead of asking recent converts, or chat-boughts.
ashes to ashes .. how long does it take to make a color negative ?
if you know it’s possible, and you know something about the chemistry of emulsion making, how long will it take you to make a color negative ? in the past, how long did it take; who was that first one .. and, The first one who duplicated someone else?
Can you say, Agfa, Ansco… or, has the limited life of the internet set your limits? hint: December to July..
Learning to make fil1m again … after you figured out what the word means you can begin learning what it took to know how to make film.
If you know it can be done . The patents for all of the early efforts have long since expired. Even if the patent didn’t cover everything in sequential detail , the more than 13,000 scientific publications available and in the public domain cover the full spectrum of industrial size chemical and emulsion coating through 1950. Certainly what Agfa ,Ansco ,Dupont, Kodak achieved by 1951 could be reverse engineered by a company with sufficient staff and management direction to achieve a 1945 color negative. Incorporated masking, that orange color, wasn’t always used, nor was it always orange — some masked CNs systems were yellow, yellow-green. They were matched to the print stage.
Agfa, Ansco, General Aniline and Film Corporation. Ansco was seized by the US government when WW2 began. Germany already had a color negative film, The United States seizure left Ansco with a plant that had been making that film but without the knowledge of the ingredients of the emulsion. They had trained personnel at the plant in Binghamton, but we didn’t have the deep engineering skill; not in that plant. However, Albert Marshall of Rumford chemical took over to fulfill the request of the United States government for a color film in support of the war effort. it was a success done rapidly: July 1942 the product was demonstrated to a gathering of over 200 . it was billed as the 20th century magic lantern show. –-Louis Walton Sipley, 1951.
early dye-coupler films:
— Kodachrome — too strong blue
— Ektachrome — weak deep reds, flesh became orange
— Ansco — blue-green
.. to make a color negative… knowing it’s possible. In the 40s it took less than a year for one motivated, funded firm. The others, such as Kodak, evolved to a final complete status of negative and paper in six years. Recall: Kodak Ektacolor negative was launched with Pan Matrix Film for the small professional wedding studio user.
Ignore the concepts of Kodak patentees from the 80s about their practice during Kodak’s failure years.. patents, along with multiple research platforms are rich with specifics for one engaged in building something equivalent to 1950 color.
Given that the color film portion is all we are discussing; no need to design for a non-existent darkroom second step: paper, since output is to a scanner. So it is, 2020+ . Key to a Frontier; be done. This means a full mask set isn’t required. We can design as if making a transparency without requiring a ‘warm bulb’ correction of shadows. The output device is a “minilab” updated: Frontier and Noritsu.
Is Harman falling into the Wright brothers problem ? Or, just standard divided response. Lack of attention to goal; lack of goal?
— Film Version
— Launch Date
Harman Phoenix 200
– December 1, 2023
Harman Phoenix 200 II
– July 16, 2025
making product revisions takes
~19 months
Summary of Changes
— sloppy joe answers —
AI doesn’t know where/what to search, so it does a — lets ask the crowd — where does the biggest sound come from — there’s the answer. Learning in the age of “make a deal” know-how.
Ask AI3: About mid-century color negative-positive systems. Reason was considering why Harman was taking as much time as they were on rebuilding colour negative product.
First answer: “Chromogenic color negative film revolutionized photography by making color images more accessible to the general public. This innovation primarily began with Kodak’s introduction of Kodacolor in 1942”
Kodacolor
1942
Eastman Color
1950
Kodacolor-X
1963
Kodacolor II
1972
AIs initial reading of history — Kodak dominant training, me thinks. Oh, those tape jockies of Silicon Valley.
Second response, after suggesting they had missed Agfa. I didn’t mention any other CN films.
Year
Event
1936
Agfa launches Agfacolor Neu, the first commercially successful color film.
1942
Kodak introduces Kodacolor, the first consumer-oriented chromogenic color negative film
1946
Kodak releases Ektachrome, a reversal film that also utilizes chromogenic processes.
2009
Kodak ceases production of Kodachrome, marking the end of an era for this iconic fi
revised AI response
the orange scratches off… not from the base, but from the emulsion.
scratching the base will not remove the orange color.
white balance the film gets a great cyan.
estimate about 50R (50m + 50y)
Notes:
orange mask isn’t in the base.
orange wasn’t the only color mask; yellow as well as green masking systems have been deployed. Some Color negatives into the 60s would display this.
Kodak wasn’t first with color negatives
supplemental [silver] masking has also used colored masks. dye-coupling, along with my use of imbibition matrix film, as mask ,1960 –]
At, Lutz. “The Photochemical Industry: Historical Essays in Business Strategy and Internationalization.” Pd. D Dissertation. Massachusetts Institute of Technology ,
Wentzel, Fritz. Memoirs of a Photochemist. Wentzel, Fritz. Memoirs of a Photochemist, 1960.
10,26’26
AI in defense of Sandhill’s dictionary
‘takeover’ — AI corrected my referencing the Assumption of Control as a “takeover” — guess Sandhill considers that profanity. Reminder, in 1951, historian writing about the war called it a take over. Perhaps that space is how AIs are taught is correct form.
film, to AI4 is short for film-maker, cinema, movies ↩︎
googling has become retroid — I aksed gemini(goog) to characterize “dye transfer webionaire” Err responded with:
[The term "dye transfer" on the photography blog Webionaire refers to critical commentary, historical notes, and technical lamentations regarding the legendary, obsolete Kodak Dye Transfer color printing process. [1, 2] The content on the site regarding this topic highlights:
• The Death of the Medium: Discussions on how the specialized materials, matrix films, and papers required for the process are practically extinct. • Online Communities: Critiques of online forum behavior and self-appointed experts discussing a craft most have never actively practiced. • Technical Realities: Detailed breakdowns of specialized tools like the matrix punch and registration boards used in traditional labs. [5]
Err provided links to posts.. the only impressive part was the speed of response. Helps being able to speed read, and to have read ahead.
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