Harman flameout

ashes to ashes .. how long does it take to make a color negative ?

if you know it’s possible, and you know something about the chemistry of emulsion making, how long will it take you to make a color negative ?
in the past, how long did it take; who was that first one .. and, The first one who duplicated someone else?

Can you say, Agfa, Ansco… or, has the limited life of the internet set your limits? hint: December to July..

Learning to make fil1m again … after you figured out what the word means you can begin learning what it took to know how to make film.

If you know it can be done . The patents for all of the early efforts have long since expired. Even if the patent didn’t cover everything in sequential detail , the more than 13,000 scientific publications available and in the public domain cover the full spectrum of industrial size chemical and emulsion coating through 1950. Certainly what Agfa ,Ansco ,Dupont, Kodak achieved by 1951 could be reverse engineered by a company with sufficient staff and management direction to achieve a 1945 color negative. Incorporated masking, that orange color, wasn’t always used, nor was it always orange — some masked CNs systems were yellow, yellow-green. They were matched to the print stage.

Agfa, Ansco, General Aniline and Film Corporation. Ansco was seized by the US government when WW2 began. Germany already had a color negative film, The United States seizure left Ansco with a plant that had been making that film but without the knowledge of the ingredients of the emulsion. They had trained personnel at the plant in Binghamton, but we didn’t have the deep engineering skill; not in that plant. However, Albert Marshall of Rumford chemical took over to fulfill the request of the United States government for a color film in support of the war effort. it was a success done rapidly: July 1942 the product was demonstrated to a gathering of over 200 . it was billed as the 20th century magic lantern show. –-Louis Walton Sipley, 1951.

early dye-coupler films:

  • — Kodachrome — too strong blue
  • — Ektachrome — weak deep reds, flesh became orange
  • — Ansco — blue-green

.. to make a color negative… knowing it’s possible. In the 40s it took less than a year for one motivated, funded firm. The others, such as Kodak, evolved to a final complete status of negative and paper in six years. Recall: Kodak Ektacolor negative was launched with Pan Matrix Film for the small professional wedding studio user.


Ignore the concepts of Kodak patentees from the 80s about their practice during Kodak’s failure years.. patents, along with multiple research platforms are rich with specifics for one engaged in building something equivalent to 1950 color.

Given that the color film portion is all we are discussing; no need to design for a non-existent darkroom second step: paper, since output is to a scanner. So it is, 2020+ .
Key to a Frontier; be done. This means a full mask set isn’t required. We can design as if making a transparency without requiring a ‘warm bulb’ correction of shadows. The output device is a “minilab” updated: Frontier and Noritsu.


Is Harman falling into the Wright brothers problem ? Or, just standard divided response. Lack of attention to goal; lack of goal?

— Film Version — Launch Date
Harman Phoenix 200 – December 1, 2023
Harman Phoenix 200 II– July 16, 2025
making product revisions takes~19 months
Summary of Changes

— sloppy joe answers —

AI doesn’t know where/what to search, so it does a — lets ask the crowd — where does the biggest sound come from — there’s the answer. Learning in the age of “make a deal” know-how.

Ask AI3: About mid-century color negative-positive systems. Reason was considering why Harman was taking as much time as they were on rebuilding colour negative product.

First answer: “Chromogenic color negative film revolutionized photography by making color images more accessible to the general public. This innovation primarily began with Kodak’s introduction of Kodacolor in 1942”

Kodacolor1942
Eastman Color1950
Kodacolor-X1963
Kodacolor II1972
AIs initial reading of history — Kodak dominant training, me thinks. Oh, those tape jockies of Silicon Valley.

Second response, after suggesting they had missed Agfa. I didn’t mention any other CN films.

YearEvent
1936Agfa launches Agfacolor Neu, the first commercially successful color film.
1942Kodak introduces Kodacolor, the first consumer-oriented chromogenic color negative film
1946Kodak releases Ektachrome, a reversal film that also utilizes chromogenic processes.
2009Kodak ceases production of Kodachrome, marking the end of an era for this iconic fi
revised AI response

the orange scratches off… not from the base, but from the emulsion.

scratching the base will not remove the orange color.

white balance the film gets a great cyan.

estimate about 50R (50m + 50y)

Notes:

  • orange mask isn’t in the base.
  • orange wasn’t the only color mask; yellow as well as green masking systems have been deployed. Some Color negatives into the 60s would display this.
  • Kodak wasn’t first with color negatives
  • supplemental [silver] masking has also used colored masks. dye-coupling, along with my use of imbibition matrix film, as mask ,1960 –]
  • At, Lutz. “The Photochemical Industry: Historical Essays in Business Strategy and Internationalization.” Pd. D Dissertation. Massachusetts Institute of Technology ,
  • “History of Bayer: 1945-1951.” History of Bayer: 1945-1951 | Bayer Global, www.bayer.com/en/history/1945-1951. Accessed 9 June 2023
  • Wentzel, Fritz. Memoirs of a Photochemist. Wentzel, Fritz. Memoirs of a Photochemist, 1960.

10,26’26

AI in defense of Sandhill’s dictionary

‘takeover’ — AI corrected my referencing the Assumption of Control as a “takeover” — guess Sandhill considers that profanity. Reminder, in 1951, historian writing about the war called it a take over. Perhaps that space is how AIs are taught is correct form.

  1. film, to AI4 is short for film-maker, cinema, movies ↩︎

Regression toward the Meme

This house resolves: WE are here to pound our chests and leave unchanged, more committed to selling merch in halls and always online.

Regression to a meme… a degraded conversation makes any exchange seem fulsome, even though it is not wholesome.

finishing with surrender as victory: “We have to agree to disagree…” debate tactic of the novice grown confident by absolution from funders happily using you as front men to the children’s chorus.

?why do we have to agree…. the debate wasn’t needed. You came with your fixed opinion. Held my stage, but didn’t listen, learn. I gave you attention along with an audience. We end where we began in awareness and knowledge. Except.

absolutes negate. How long was the earth flat?

Putin or ?; T-bag provides tiny version of Putin’s argument.. history from the attacker. Explanation of a long ago childhood trauma wouldn’t be evidentiary in Kirk’s court of aggression, yet serves well as reasoning for excuse of bully boy-friend… the acceptance is over anticipated wealth .

All is subject to a business based on bathroom deals and toilet paper contracts.

loser: agree to disagree — cry uncle and reset another game. Back to were we began, except you have been given a stage and audience.

You won. T-shirts and mugs available. “Prove me wrong” is a slogan not evidence. Catchy enough, even in the Ketchup free state.

===one with facts, one with accusations impossible to prove wrong. The winner is always the one most available for interviews.

This educational model aimed to cultivate well-rounded individuals equipped with the knowledge and skills necessary to engage in public life, think critically, and pursue moral and intellectual virtues [wikip]

  • Middle ages AD 500-1500
  • Renaissance: 12th C and 15th 16th
  • Age of Enlightenment  1687-1789

// chuckroast [boast]etc

[more posts along these times/tunes are in the pot]

Showing Prints on the Web

Beginning printers learn by coordinating their eye and hand, by looking at more things, until they can make assessments of greater abstraction, ie, things removed, even remote, from the origin object. With skill, you see the tree not the print — do this enough and you will see the print as you look at the mountain… The representation of an image may serve as mnemonic, even as illustration to other visualizers. A common grounding; a touchstone needn’t be stonehenge. The self aware growing their visual mindscape. Certainly making a point in the Web2 world can be made with an illustration.

While a “print” can’t be shown over the wire, it can be transmitted, even understood; understood well enough that Telemedicine works.

craft doesn’t have to limit, nor does conversation have to be limited to craft 
“The real voyage of discovery consists, not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes.” — Proust

It was commonplace to teach by way of slides. I used it as supporting background teaching dye transfer. Additionally, I was able to demonstrate differences in filtration methods in making Type C prints. Side by side on the same slide. Humans capable of making art are quite apt at understanding comparisons. We see in relationships. For absolutes we need a machine. Our eye is the bundle of the revealed brain.

One use of the cellshot is a record, a timestamp of that “light”

You Don’t Show, not even as illustration because:

  • don’t have
  • embarrassed by what have
  • don’t know how to show
  • afraid [you/ someone] will steal
  • don’t care about your opinion
  • [why expend so much effort claiming a ‘one true’ way] Even the emoji using redundant engineer. I assume he didn’t study physics, or isn’t interested in current “frame” meanings.

Can I show more using the ‘net? Is electronic imagery more flexible? Can you, using chemical means, balance the curve differences of color (RA4) paper? Not without recourse to multiple colored masks. An almost triiavl task for intermediate skilled digital based retoucher/printer. A well managed system provides immediate soft=proof.

Assessing the Mentor:

said / meant

I’ve never taken a photograph with my cellphone.  [i’m not good enough photographer to use the simple tool, to make memorable or useful picture]

Prepaid cell offering less coverage in remote locations. Still, makes a great retort of comfort to those steeped in creating a nearer to Thee legend.

An underdeveloped visual mind is terrible thing to brag about.

Their safety concern– how deep is their ocean?

  • ” I have only a cell phone for emergency roadside need.”
  • “I have never taken a picture with one [MEANING: so he can’t show you anything he has or has seen.]”
  • ” Besides, even the cell phone selfie phonies couldn’t get reception at the beautiful points in my recent travel.”

If you carry the phone for emergency roadside use… and there is no reception…. your life lessons may be flawed. Not the best guide; not a skilled map-maker.

The logicians involved are retired very active forum posters. One, an aerospace engineer who was retired at 55; the other an order processor at a softwoods shop. He retired in his late 60s; clearly more critical in job function than the redundant engineer.

They would have you follow their advice, (why they give it so often) that a cell phone is only good for roadside emergency — even where there is not service[?]. Lacking cell service, the supposed phone provides recording features, alas, not of use for these cellular phonies. Perhaps they mean they have a satellite phone. Good for them.

Behind their legend: in one case, mystery permits changing his story to fit the need for boasting of skills. In showing nothing, he lets you imagine him more capable than he is; more productive than he ever was.

Reasons for maintaining their legend:

  • they are embarrassed by what they have
  • they don’t have what they claim
  • maybe lack skill of translation

Skill types… the reason for craft is translation. Good to see your work is well regarded.

Exposure. Composition. Using the meter and following the measure of 18th century drawing rooms has a simple reward. Just not up to meeting on the majors stage

You must know where to show. Certainly the large, long-lived photo forums lack the shared background for worthwhile exchange. As well, they fail at being able to exchange craft information.

Perhaps they have stalled in all roads of their life — the roadside service has no on-ramp ramp

Tip toe through the tall tale

You can’t show on the Internet, you can’t evaluate a photograph, yet he didn’t like the prints, the photographs only seen on the Internet .
 That web fight was between Drew, Kirk Gittings,& Bob Carnie over print quality.

once this was pointed out to him, once it was pointed out to others that he had a website, within weeks his “own” website was taken down — chose to no longer show on the internet.